The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included.

Aelodau’r pwyllgor yn bresennol
Committee members in attendance

Mick Antoniw

Llafur (yn dirprwyo dros Julie James)
Labour (substitute for Julie James)

Suzy Davies

Ceidwadwyr Cymreig
Welsh Conservatives

Eluned Parrott

Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru

Welsh Liberal Democrats

Simon Thomas

Plaid Cymru
The Party of Wales

Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bresennol
National Assembly for Wales officials in attendance

Gwyn Griffiths

Uwch-gynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Senior Legal Adviser

Ruth Hatton

Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk

Siân Richards

Y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil
Research Service

Owain Roberts

Y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil
Research Service

Gareth Williams

Clerc
Clerk

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 2.31 p.m.
The meeting began at 2.31 p.m.

Ethol Cadeirydd Dros Dro
Election of a Temporary Chair

[1] Mr Williams: Good afternoon and welcome to this meeting of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. The committee Chair, David Melding, has submitted his apologies for today’s meeting and so the first item of business is the election of a temporary Chair. I invite nominations from committee members for a temporary Chair to be elected under Standing Order No. 17.22.

[2] Mick Antoniw: I nominate Simon Thomas.

[3] Mr Williams: I see that there are no other nominations. I declare Simon Thomas elected and invite him to take the chair.

Penodwyd Simon Thomas yn Gadeirydd dros dro.
Simon Thomas was appointed temporary Chair.

Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datganiadau o Fuddiant
Introduction, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of Interest

[4] Simon Thomas: Diolch yn fawr iawn. Croeso i’r cyfarfod hwn o’r Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol. Rydym wedi derbyn ymddiheuriadau gan Julie James a chroesawn Mick Antoniw yn ei lle. Nid ydym yn disgwyl larwm tân, felly os oes larwm o unrhyw fath, mae angen i chi ddilyn y cyfarwyddiadau. Byddai’n braf petaech yn diffodd eich ffonau symudol ac yn y blaen, gan eu bod yn gallu amharu ar offer darlledu. Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r cyfarfod yn ddwyieithog; mae cyfieithu ar y pryd ar sianel 1 a gallwch glywed y cyfarfod yn yr iaith wreiddiol ar sianel 0.

Simon Thomas: Thank you very much. Welcome to this meeting of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. We have received apologies from Julie James and we welcome Mick Antoniw in her place. We do not expect a fire drill, so, if there is any kind of alarm, please follow the instructions. It would be good if you would switch off mobile phones et cetera because they can affect the broadcasting equipment. As you know, the meeting is bilingual; interpretation is available on channel 1 and you can hear amplified sound of the original language spoken on channel 0.

2.33 p.m.

Offerynnau nad ydynt yn Cynnwys unrhyw Faterion i’w Codi o dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhif 21.2 neu 21.3
Instruments that Raise no Reporting Issues under Standing Order Nos. 21.2 or 21.3

[5] Simon Thomas: Mae un Gorchymyn y dreth gyngor a rheoliadau’r dreth gyngor. Nid oes pwyntiau i’w nodi, ond a oes gan Aelodau unrhyw bwyntiau neu gwestiynau? Gwelaf nad oes.

Simon Thomas: There is one council tax Order and the council tax regulations. There are no points to note, but do Members have any comments to make or any questions? I see that you do not.

Offerynnau sy’n Cynnwys Materion i Gyflwyno Adroddiad arnynt i’r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 21.2 neu 21.3
Instruments that Raise Issues to be Reported to the Assembly under Standing Order Nos. 21.2 or 21.3

[6] Simon Thomas: Mae un adroddiad yn y fan hon, sef ar Reoliadau Awdurdodau Lleol (Cyd-bwyllgorau Trosolwg a Chraffu) (Cymru) 2013. Mae’n adroddiad technegol ei natur, ond mae gerbron y pwyllgor. A oes gan Aelodau sylwadau neu gwestiynau am hynny? Gwelaf nad oes.

Simon Thomas: There is one report here, namely on the Local Authorities (Joint Overview and Scrutiny Committees) (Wales) Regulations 2013. It is a report of a technical nature, but it is before the committee. Do Members have any comments or questions on that? I see that you do not.

2.34 p.m.

Is-ddeddfwriaeth Arall
Other Subordinate Legislation

[7] Simon Thomas: Mae hyn o natur tipyn bach yn wahanol i’r hyn rydym wedi ei drafod yn y gorffennol. Ger ein bron, mae’r cod trefniadaeth ysgolion 2013. Y sefyllfa fan hon yw, er nad yw hwn yn offeryn statudol fel y cyfryw, mae’n cael ei osod gerbron y Cynulliad am 40 niwrnod, ac mae modd i’r Cynulliad ei alw i mewn am drafodaeth neu ei wrthod yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw. Oni bai am hynny, mae’r weithdrefn negyddol yn gweithio ac mae’r cod wedyn yn cael ei weithredu gan y Gweinidog. Gan mai dyma’r tro cyntaf y mae’r pwyllgor wedi gweld y drefn hon—mae’n benodol o dan y Bil hwn—a oes gan Gwyn unrhyw sylwadau penodol ar hyn ac efallai ar y ffordd y byddem yn gweld y rhain yn dod i’r pwyllgor yn y dyfodol?

Simon Thomas: This is of a slightly different nature from what we have discussed in the past. We have before us the school organisation code 2013. The situation here is that, although this is not a statutory instrument, it is being laid before the Assembly for 40 days, and the Assembly can call it in for discussion or reject it during that period. Unless that happens, the negative resolution is applicable and the code is then applied by the Minister. As this is the first time that the committee has seen this arrangement—it is specifically under this Bill—does Gwyn have any comments to make in relation to this issue and perhaps on how we may see these coming before the committee in future?

[8] Mr Griffiths : Mae hwn yn god pwysig dros ben. Bydd y rhai sydd wedi dilyn hyn o safbwynt Deddf Safonau a Threfniadaeth Ysgolion (Cymru) 2013 yn gyfarwydd â’r hyn yr oedd gan y Gweinidog i’w ddweud ynglŷn â chynnwys hwn. Mae’n gynnwys cyfreithiol ei natur, ac mae’n gosod allan yn glir beth ddylai cyrff ei wneud, a’r hyn na ddylent ei wneud ac na chânt ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, mater o bolisi yw’r cynnwys mewn gwirionedd, ac felly awgrymaf ei fod yn fater y dylai’r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc ei ystyried, yn hytrach na’r pwyllgor hwn. Mae fy nghyfaill, Stephen Davies, wedi edrych arno o ran craffu technegol, i sicrhau bod y pwerau cymwys wedi cael eu defnyddio, ac yn y blaen, ac mae hynny’n gwbl gywir.

Mr Griffiths: This is a very important code. Those who have followed this from the point of view of the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013 will be familiar with what the Minister had to say about the content of this. The content is legal in nature, and it sets out clearly what organisations should do, what they should not do, and what they are not permitted to do. However, the content is a matter of policy in reality, and therefore I would suggest that it is an issue for the Children and Young People Committee to consider, rather than this committee. My colleague, Stephen Davies, has looked at this in terms of technical scrutiny, to ensure that the appropriate powers have been used, and so on, and everything is in order.

[9] Bydd dogfennau o’r math hwn yn dod gerbron y pwyllgor, gan eu bod yn is-ddeddfwriaeth nad yw’n cael ei gwneud drwy offerynnau statudol, ac felly mae’n fater i’r pwyllgor hwn ystyried a yw am wneud adroddiad ai peidio. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw beth yn y ddogfen hon sy’n rhoi rheswm i’r pwyllgor hwn baratoi adroddiad.

Documents of this kind will come before the committee, as they are subordinate legislation that is not made through statutory instruments, and therefore it is a matter for this committee to consider whether it wishes to report or not. I do not believe that there is anything in this document that would suggest that the committee should prepare a report.

[10] Hoffwn eich cyfeirio yn gyflym at adran 39 yn y Ddeddf, sy’n amlinellu’r broses sy’n berthnasol i’r cod hwn. Mae’r adran hon yn nodi bod angen i Weinidogion osod hwn gerbron y Cynulliad, ac wedyn, pe bai’r Cynulliad o fewn cyfnod o 40 niwrnod yn penderfynu peidio â chymeradwyo’r drafft, ni fyddai’r Gweinidog yn gallu symud yn ei flaen â’r cod. Felly, mae’n broses wahanol iawn; mae’n broses negyddol, ond eto mae’n gymwys i ddarn o ddeddfwriaeth cyn i’r ddeddfwriaeth gael ei gwneud. Felly, pe bai’r Cynulliad yn gwneud dim, gallai’r Gweinidog wedyn gyflwyno’r cod hwn yn ffurfiol, ond gallai’r Cynulliad, yn y cyfamser—o fewn 40 niwrnod—benderfynu i’r gwrthwyneb. Felly, mater i’r Cynulliad fydd hyn yn y pen draw.

I wish to refer you briefly to section 39 in the Act, which outlines the process that is relevant to this code. This section states that Ministers need to lay this before the Assembly, and should the Assembly then, within a period of 40 days, decide not to approve the draft, the Minister would not be able to progress with the code. Therefore, it is a very different process; it is a negative process, but it applies to a piece of legislation before that legislation is made. Therefore, if the Assembly were to do nothing, then the Minister could proceed and issue the code formally, but the Assembly in the meantime—within 40 days—could decide otherwise. Therefore, this is a matter for the Assembly at the end of the day.

[11] Simon Thomas: Diolch, Gwyn. Fel y gwelwch, yr awgrym yw bod cynnwys y cod yn fater i bwyllgor pwnc, ond bod natur y math hwn o weithredu o ddiddordeb i ni. A oes gan Aelodau unrhyw sylwadau?

Simon Thomas: Thank you, Gwyn. As you see, the suggestion here is that the content of the code is a matter for a subject committee, but that the nature of this kind of implementation is of interest to us. Do Members have any comments?

[12] Suzy Davies: A yw hwn ond wedi dod trwodd mewn drafft ar hyn o bryd?

Suzy Davies: Has this just come through in draft form at present?

[13] Mr Griffiths: Ydy, drafft yw hwn.

Mr Griffiths: Yes, this is a draft.

[14] Suzy Davies: Nid yw hynny wedi ei nodi ar y tu blaen.

Suzy Davies: That is not noted on the front cover.

[15] Simon Thomas: Mae wedi cael ei gyhoeddi fel cod—nid yw’n nodi mai drafft yw, ond, yn gyfreithiol, drafft yw e.

Simon Thomas: It has been published as a code—it does not say ‘draft’ on the cover, but it is, legally, a draft.

[16] Mick Antoniw: I read through this last night. It is an important document, and it has important criteria in terms of the 10% and the 25% with regard to surplus places, and so on. However, as has been reported, those are policy matters, so we do not need to engage with them. Therefore, beyond that, I do not see any particular matter that needs to be raised at this committee.

[17] Simon Thomas: Y cwestiwn sy’n codi yw mai dyma efallai’r math o weithredu a fydd yn digwydd fwyfwy gyda rhai o’r Deddfau sy’n dod gerbron, a bydd yn rhaid i ni fod yn ofalus, fel y dywedwch, Mick, ein bod yn edrych ar yr ochr ddeddfwriaethol, ac nid ar yr ochr bolisi.

Simon Thomas: The question that arises is that this is perhaps the kind of arrangement that will occur more often with some of the Acts that come before us, and, as you say, Mick, we will have to be careful that we look at the legislative side of things, and not at the policy side.

[18] Eluned Parrott: Following on from that, does the legal team have any idea as to whether similar procedures might come forward, or whether, for example, if we look at the Active Travel (Wales) Bill, the guidance will be laid in a similar kind of way? Is that the kind of procedure that you foresee?

[19] Mr Griffiths: The Active Travel (Wales) Bill currently does not contain that sort of procedure, but there is no reason why it should not. This is an interesting, and fairly novel, approach to trying to provide a greater degree of scrutiny, while maintaining the kind of flexibility of non-statutory instrument subordinate legislation.

[20] Eluned Parrott: I think that we would all welcome the opportunity for scrutiny to be given to things where they are of such obvious public and policy interest.

[21] Suzy Davies: Thinking of the Active Travel (Wales) Bill, the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act was the first, but it is only likely to be the first piece of legislation that comes through about which we have been assured by the Minister that we will get to see drafts of information coming through, virtually simultaneously, with what might be quite skimpy Bills in themselves. If that is going to be the case, perhaps we need to start talking about something more formalised. Even with this, it came out a fair few months after the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act went through, and that was on the basis of assurances, was it not? We had no reason not to believe that the Minister would produce something very serious and important, but it would have been great to have had this simultaneously.

[22] Mick Antoniw: On the same point, I think that the same is likely to happen with the organ transplant legislation. Increasingly, there are codes that, effectively, are almost secondary legislation, and you cannot have an understanding of the primary legislation without seeing the code. So, this is a new experience, but probably one that is likely to occur increasingly.

[23] Simon Thomas: Mae’n rhywbeth y bydd yn rhaid i ni, fel pwyllgor, ei wylio. Yn sicr, dylem fynegi diddordeb yn ei weld mor fuan ag sy’n bosibl, wrth i’r broses fynd rhagddo. Efallai dyna swyddogaeth briodol y pwyllgor hwn: craffu ar y broses, yn hytrach na chraffu ar y cynnwys. Yr hyn sy’n ddiddorol i mi yw bod y Bil a aeth i’r pwyllgor yn bur wahanol i’r Bil a ddaeth allan o’r pwyllgor. Roedd llawer o’r hyn sydd yn y cod yn y Bil mewn trefn benodedig o dan reoliadau, ac fe’i tynnwyd allan o’r Bil, ac mae’r cod wedi ymddangos yn ei le. Mewn ffordd, bydd y pwyllgor arbennig arall hwnnw â diddordeb mawr yn hyn, ond nid yw cymaint i’r pwyllgor hwn. A oes sylwadau eraill ar y broses?

Simon Thomas: It is something that we, as a committee, will have to keep an eye on. We should certainly express an interest in seeing it as soon as possible, as the process goes ahead. Perhaps that is the appropriate function for this committee: to scrutinise the process, rather than scrutinising the content. What interests me is that the Bill that went to the committee is very different from that which came out of the committee. Much of what is in the code was in the Bill in a specific arrangement under regulations, and that was removed from the Bill, and the code has appeared in its stead. In a way, that specific other committee will have a great deal of interest in this, but it is not so much for this committee. Are there any other comments on the process?

[24] Mr Griffiths: Mae gennyf sylw byr iawn—

Mr Griffiths: I have a brief comment to make—

[25] Simon Thomas: Mae gennyf i un sylw arall hefyd, ond parhewch, Gwyn.

Simon Thomas: I also have a short comment, but carry on, Gwyn.

[26] Mr Griffiths: Mae ynglŷn â phwynt Suzy; mae hwn yn ddrafft, oherwydd, os edrychwch ar y blaen, mae cod statudol dogfen rhif yn dal i fod yn ‘xxx/2013’. Dyna’r unig gliw mai drafft yw hwn.

Mr Griffiths: It is about Suzy’s point; this is a draft, because, if you look at the front, the statutory code document number is still ‘xxx/2013’. That is the only clue that it is a draft.

[27] Simon Thomas: Dyna’r unig gliw y mae’r bobl brofessiynol yn gallu ei roi i ni. [Chwerthin.]

Simon Thomas: That is the only clue that the professional people can give us. [Laughter.]

[28] Suzy Davies: Diolch.

Suzy Davies: Thank you.

[29] Simon Thomas: Hoffwn ofyn cwestiwn. Roeddwn i’n edrych ar y cod ymarfer ac ar y memorandwm esboniadol, ac nid wyf ond yn gallu ffeindio fersiwn Saesneg ohono. A yw ar gael yn Gymraeg? Ai fi yn unig sy’n methu ei weld ymhlith y papurau?

Simon Thomas: I would like to ask a question. I was looking at the code of practice and the explanatory memorandum, and I can only find an English version of that. Is it available in Welsh? Is it just that I cannot see it among the papers?

[30] Mr Griffiths: Mae’n rhaid imi gyfaddef nad wyf wedi edrych, ond, fel y gwelwch gyda’r is-ddeddfwriaeth sy’n dod gerbron, mae’r memorandwm esboniadol ar gael yn Saesneg yn unig yn aml. Os hoffai’r pwyllgor wneud sylw am hynny—

Mr Griffiths: I must admit that I have not looked, but, as you will see with the subordinate legislation that comes before us, the explanatory memorandum is often available in English only. If the committee would like to comment on that—

[31] Simon Thomas: Nid yn awr, ond mae’n rhywbeth i’w ystyried. Rwy’n synnu weld bod rhywbeth sydd mor benodol i’r hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud heb gael ei wneud yn y Gymraeg. Efallai ei fod yn rhywbeth i ni ddychwelyd ato rywbryd.

Simon Thomas: Not now, but it is something to consider. I am surprised to see that something so specific to what the Government does has not been done in Welsh. Perhaps it is something for us to come back to another time.

2.43 p.m.

Cynnig ar gyfer Rheoliad Senedd Ewrop a’r Cyngor ar Fesurau i Leihau Costau Sefydlu Rhwydweithiau Cyfathrebu Electronig Cyflym (COM(2013)147)

Proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on Measures to Reduce the Cost of Deploying High-speed Electronic Communications Networks (COM(2013)147)

[32] Simon Thomas: Mae’r eitem hon hefyd yn delio â deddfwriaeth o fath. Mae gennych adroddiad, ond mae diweddariad i’r adroddiad, a gofynnaf i’n cynghorydd ddiweddaru’r pwyllgor cyn i ni barhau.

Simon Thomas: This item also deals with legislation of a sort. You have a report, but there is an update on the report, and I will ask our adviser to update the committee before we continue.

[33] Mr Roberts: I’ch diweddaru ar y papur sydd o’ch blaenau, roeddem wedi sôn yn y papur bod Tŷ’r Cyffredin wrthi’n ystyried y mater. Ers hynny, maent wedi adrodd ar y cynnig—gwnaethpwyd am 11 a.m. heddiw—ac fe fydd dadl a reasoned opinion yn digwydd naill ai’r wythnos hon neu ddydd Llun neu ddydd Mawrth nesaf. Fe fydd Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn dechrau’i doriad hanner tymor ddydd Mercher, 25 Mai. Felly, yn anffodus, rydym wedi methu’r dedlein i ddylanwadu ar eu safbwyntiau hwy ar yr adroddiad, ond mae modd i ni ysgrifennu atynt i ddylanwadu ar y ddadl. Rydym wedi cael gair ag ein cydweithwyr yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, ac maent yn hapus i ni anfon rhywbeth atynt i’w gynnwys fel rhan o’r debate pack ar gyfer Aelodau.

Mr Roberts: To update you on the paper in front of you, we had mentioned in the paper that the House of Commons is currently considering this issue. Since then, they have reported on the proposal—they did so at 11 a.m. today—and there will be a debate and a reasoned opinion either this week or next Monday or Tuesday. The House of Commons will begin its half-term recess next Wednesday, 25 May. So, unfortunately, we have missed the deadline to influence their views on the report, but we can write to them to try to influence the debate. We have spoken with our colleagues in the House of Commons, and they are happy for us to send something to them for inclusion in the debate pack for Members.

[34] Suzy Davies: A allech ddweud wrthym ba Aelodau a fydd yn cymryd rhan yn y ddadl yr wythnos nesaf? Efallai y bydd yn bosibl i ni, fel unigolion, ofyn i’n pleidiau ni i sicrhau eu bod yn bresennol.

Suzy Davies: Could you tell us which Members will be taking part in the debate next week? Perhaps we could, as individuals, ask our parties to ensure that they are present.

[35] Mr Roberts: Nid wyf yn siŵr pa Aelodau fydd yno, ond Bill Cash yw’r cadeirydd, felly, yn amlwg fydd ef yn cymryd rhan. O ran yr Aelodau eraill, nid wyf yn siŵr—

Mr Roberts: I am not sure which Members will be there, but Bill Cash is the chair, so clearly he will participate in the debate. In terms of other Members, I am not sure—

[36] Suzy Davies: Efallai y gallem ofyn iddo fe.

Suzy Davies: Perhaps we could ask him.

[37] Simon Thomas: Ai hwnnw yw’r pwyllgor gwnaethom ei gyfarfod pythefnos yn ôl?

Simon Thomas: It is that the committee that we met a fortnight ago?

[38] Mr Roberts: Ie.

Mr Roberts: Yes.

[39] Mr Griffiths: Rwy’n meddwl fy mod yn iawn i ddweud mai Nia Griffith yw’r unig Aelod Seneddol o Gymru sydd ar y pwyllgor.

Mr Griffiths: I think that I am right in saying that Nia Griffith is the only Welsh Member of Parliament on the committee.

2.45 p.m.

[40] Suzy Davies: O’r fan honno rwy’n dod, mewn gwirionedd.

Suzy Davies: That is where I am coming from, really.

[41] Simon Thomas: Felly, er ei bod yn rhy hwyr i ni fwydo syniadau i mewn a dylanwadu ar y broses, mae’r pwyllgor hwnnw eisoes wedi penderfynu rhoi reasoned opinion o dan fater y sybsidiaredd hwn. Mewn ffordd, y cwestiwn i ni wedi darllen yr adroddiad yw a yw’r pwyllgor yn teimlo y dylem gefnogi’r dull hwnnw.

Simon Thomas: So, even though it is too late for us to feed in ideas and to influence the process, that committee has already decided to give a reasoned opinion under this subsidiarity issue. In a way, the question for us after reading the report is whether the committee feels that we should support that approach.

[42] Suzy Davies: Yn bersonol, ydw.

Suzy Davies: Personally, yes.

[43] Simon Thomas: Wrth ei ddarllen, teimlwn ei fod yn rhesymol. Gwelais fod rhanbarthau’r Almaen yn teimlo’r un peth. Felly, bydd y pwyllgor yn ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor cyfatebol—hynny yw, bydd David yn ysgrifennu at Bill Cash—yn mynegi barn y pwyllgor.

Simon Thomas: When I read it, I felt that it was reasonable. I saw that the German regions felt the same way. So, this committee will write to the corresponding committee—that is, David will write to Bill Cash—to express the opinion of the committee.

[44] Mr Roberts: Yn y gorffennol, mae’r pwyllgor wedi ysgrifennu at yr Arglwydd Boswell yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi, ac at yr Aelodau o Senedd Ewrop, gan roi gwybod iddynt ar gyfer pellach ymlaen yn y broses.

Mr Roberts: In the past, the committee has written to Lord Boswell in the House of Lords, and to the MEPs, to inform them for further on in the process.

[45] Simon Thomas: A ydych yn hapus gyda hynny? Gwelaf eich bod. Mae hynny o leiaf yn dangos, pan fydd y ddadl yn San Steffan, ein bod ni yn y Cynulliad wedi trafod y mater hwn ac wedi bod yn effro i’r posibiliadau hyn.

Simon Thomas: Are you content with that? I see that you are. That would at least show that, when the debate is held in Westminster, we in the Assembly have discussed this matter and have been alert to these possibilities.

2.46 p.m.

Papur i’w Nodi
Paper to Note

[46] Simon Thomas: Rhywbeth tebyg i’r hyn rydym newydd ei amlinellu yw’r papur i’w nodi. Sawl wythnos yn ôl, ysgrifenasom at yr Aelodau o Senedd Ewrop ynglŷn â mater arall. Dyma nodi bod ateb wedi dod gan Kay Swinburne ASE. Os nad oedd copi o’r llythyr yn y pecyn gwreiddiol, mae copi o lythyr gwreiddiol y Cadeirydd gennych heddiw. Dim mwy na phapur i’w nodi yw hwnnw. Gobeithio bod hynny’n glir i bawb. Gwelaf ei fod.

Simon Thomas: This paper to note is similar to what we have just outlined. Several weeks ago, we wrote to the MEPs in relation to another matter. This is just a note that we have received a response from Kay Swinburne MEP. If there was not a copy of the letter in the original pack, you will have a copy of the Chair’s original letter today. That is just a paper to note. I hope that that is clear to all. I see that it is.

2.46 p.m.

Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42 i Benderfynu Gwahardd y Cyhoedd
Motion under Standing Order No. 17.42 to Resolve to Exclude the Public

[47] Simon Thomas: Cynigiaf fod

Simon Thomas: I move that

y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod hwn a’r cyfarfod ar 20 Mai yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(vi).

the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting and the meeting on 20 May in accordance with Standing Order No. 17.42(vi).

[48] A yw pawb yn hapus? Gwelaf eich bod. Felly, awn ni i sesiwn breifat.

Is everyone content? I see that you are. We shall therefore go into private session.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 2.47 p.m.
The public part of the meeting ended at 2.47 p.m.